So many of you guys commented on the pictures of Timothy, but doesn't anyone have a thought about the "Wine and Bread" post? Seriously, I'm interested in thoughts, and NO, they don't have to be water-tight theology with every possible Scripture reference listed. This is not a theological blog...just talking here. Didn't any of you read my brother's comments....I mean, really, if he's the standard, surely some of you have some worthy thoughts!! (no hurt feelings, Ned) At least tell me in one short phrase what elements would you choose for the "bread" and the "wine" if in your church there was not a history with Welch's or crackers (or nothing like that could be bought locally).
With that being said, isn't it more fun to look at pictures of our cute chilren rather than debate or have to think through deep theological points?
Have fun with it...let's hear some thoughts!
-Rockin' Randall
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4 comments:
Let me preface my comment by acknowledging the fact that I am definitely not a theologian...
I would say that it's ok for the elements to be items that the members can use as symbols to appropriately remember and reflect on Jesus' love and sacrifice for them...
When I was young I always wondered why we couldn't use cheeseburgers, pizza or something more tasty and filling than a little cracker...I think now that those would distract my thoughts as I would dive into the tasty treats and forget why I was taking them.
Bottom line, if the heart is rightly focused on Jesus I don't think it matters (again...remember I am not a Bible scholar so please don't lock me up in hell with Donnie and the other heathens :)
I am interested in knowing your thoughts (Bibical references welcomed) on the partaking of the elements by unbelievers. I think it is a fellowship meal and all should be invited to join in. I certainly want our kids (we don't have any yet but our first one is due to arrive in mid December..praise God!!) to join in this meal with us. It doen't seem right to exclude others. I used to work in youth ministry and would feel sorry for the kids who weren't baptized yet, they seemed to be ashamed as they had to pass the plate without taking part....it just didn't seem right.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm eager to check back and see what others think!
(This is my first response to your blog...I was just introduced to it about 2 weeks ago by Becky when she asked for prayers for your dear friends, Lael's parents.)
I enjoy hearing from you and Kelly! Murray and I have been praying for you guys!
Jaime Sanderson
I'm so disappointed b/c I had a really good response that I worked up last night and I must have done something wrong b/c my comment didn't post. I could sound like I'm 80 yrs old and blame it on these "dang machines" but that would be a lie. I think I hit preview instead of publish. Oh well...
My thoughts were similar to Jaime's. Why did Jesus use bread and wine? I think this gets us to the chicken and the egg question (here comes non-theologian speak). We love to make references to the wine as a symbol for blood and bread as a symbol for His broken body but what if early on Jesus and later Paul used water instead of wine. This would have changed many sermons from the DO THIS UNTO ME desks for years to come. "Dear Lord, this water represents the clear conscience we now experience and the purity you give us by dying on the cross". Hmmmm, kinda catchy. We could go on "Dear Lord, we take this cheeseburger pizza because it represents all that is perfect when combining a great burger and a pizza pie which is representative of your death and resurrection." Oh, the possibilities are endless.
But b/c of the wine and bread, we have the symbols that were used and we think we have to adhere to them. I think they are just symbols so if that's all you have, use it - why reinvent the wheel. But if you can't afford that or don't have it available, find something else that will represent the body and blood of Christ.
How many pools have been used as a baptistry - is that what John the B. and Jesus used? No, we adapt based on our circumstances...
Whew - I'm done. I'll hopefully push the right button this time. Love the dialogue even if it sends me to hell !!!
Just kiddin' on the "sends me to hell" comment. I suddenly felt the temperature in my office go up a degree or two so I'm repenting for my callous response.
I still like the cheesburger pizza reference though ...
good going you guys!
Jaime, congrats on the pregnancy...God is good! I will defer alot of good theological thoughts to a book by John Mark Hicks, called COME TO THE TABLE: Revisioning the Lord's Supper (Leafwood). He definitely advocates a communal meal. Since you are familiar with it, he might liken it to the way the Jeffreys do Thanksgiving...everyone is invited, and there's lots of words of praise about God, and lots of food (and no litmus test for baptism; although you might get a few hard questions about it). If we're looking at it like a fellowship meal, then why not include the kids...but in church, we make it a private ritual that baptized believers do with themselves. In JMH's words, if we are going to celebrate the table, "this is unlike any table that I have experienced." To be silent and to oneself would be cause for concern around most functional family dinner tables. Plus we don't give it the time during the worship service, because we've made it the prelude to the "real reason people go to church" (sermon). Something's gone wrong. I always preferred the Lord's Supper in home group settings anyway because it felt for communal, less rushed, and less ritualistic. We can dramatize it by dimming the lights, but that only makes it more personal. JMH also advocates a MEAL, where there's food beyond just the small elements we use...oh boy, break out the ol' "kitchen in the church" debate!
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